I may be going over old ground here, feel free to point me in the correct direction, but I, and a friend of mine who has also just got an EFIKA, am a little frustrated at the somewhat convoluted OS installation methods that people here seem to be using. I seem to be pretty much stuck with Debian as it's the only one I can install without needing to be exercised in NFS smack-fu and TFTP. Even that depends on a LAN connection to the internet, which may not always be to hand.

I don't have the facility to offer my EFIKA either TFTP or NFS serving (not easily at any rate). I would like to know if it is possible to install some of the supported Distros (Gentoo maybe? Ubuntu Edgy? Crux?) from a USB CD or even a 1GB CF card. Even if it involves working it out via OFW (something I CAN do quite well being a Mac/Sun Geek) to boot a EFIKA Kernel and then read the 'root' from CD?

I like computers to be easy. I don't mind hacking and doing some cool stuff, but if I get nowhere (as I spent a good 2 days doing with the EFIKA until the patched EFIKA Debian Installer was released) it really strikes me as unhelpful to people trying to use this platform. It's a great platform but the OS intalling is a bit of a cloud that hangs over it.

If anyone can suggest how to make the process more straight forward and not network dependant I'd appreciate it. I've read most of the existing HowTos for various OSs and most of the time got a few paragraphs in and reduced my brain to jelly. It can't be this hard, can it? OFW is highly flexible and able to support USB mass storage natively, so surely you can supply a root via USB?

I think I ranted a bit, but I think you get the general idea. I really would appreciate some input. I, and a lot of others I know who are looking at EFIKA as a platform, would really love to be able to hook up a CD-ROM, slam in the disk and install just like other platforms. The EFIKA is good enough to do it for sure, is it just Linux? Or am I missing a trick?

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MacMiga
http://www.lincsamiga.org.uk

You and me both!

We're currently working on something Gentoo-based. The basic goals being:

* efika-sources kernel with patches (based on 2.6.22) hopefully integrating the very latest improvements (all MPC5200B development is done in mainline and is difficult to backport to current distributions which "like" to stay on 2.6.18 or 2.6.20). We already have a test kernel which ALMOST boots the Gentoo Minimal LiveCD from a USB stick (giving you a ~64MB installer set comprised of a grand total of 3 files. Add stages and portage snapshots as you please. It will also work with the full "universal" installer). It will be very, very pretty. End of the week, maybe. This will be the best part for you guys, as it means you can plug in any old USB stick and start installing Gentoo.

* stage3-patch which fixes the make.conf and some other options and gives you an overlay for extra packages you may need.

* efika-kernel package - binary kernels for Gentoo is a bit of a terrible concept, but at least you will not have to wait 45 minutes to get the same kernel as everyone else (that said, the installer kernel would work just as well, and probably be identical, this way you can emerge it)

* Portage binhost with all the latest packages (the Gentoo tinderbox for Efika is a bit out of date) including the crossdev compilers for x86 powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu and -uclibc, and Peter Czanik is working on "icecream" distributed cross compiling support so you can let your Efika pass the compile tasks to your dual core box (it doesn't have to run Gentoo, but it will help, and you needn't install Gentoo dual-boot, since VMWare Server is free)

* Providing a hosted, rsyncable overlay at http://overlays.powerdeveloper.org with Layman support so you guys can all get access to it. XGI drivers here. Binhost for the same.

* A stage4, stage4+more and a filesystem image which you can install to have a full X-based system with all the dials turned up to 11 for the XGI card.

* Fixing packages in Portage so they cross compile on x86. Same with genkernel. This is just for me :)

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Matt Sealey

Booting the kernel and starting the livecd image from a usb stick works here now. Since the it needs quite a bit of boot options a bootmenu is probably a good idea. I copied the menu script from the installcd, edited it and put it on the usb stick. It nicely shows the menu and boots the selected entry.

Edit: I added a short description of the process to the Gentoo Efika wiki page

@Neko

very, very good news ! thanks Matt !
Can't wait to start a proper Gentoo installation on my Efika, and get rid of Debian once for all :)

I'm extremely happy to see this Matt, it's great news! Do you have any idea if the kernel will boot any USB root, or only the one on the device it is stored on itself?

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MacMiga
http://www.lincsamiga.org.uk

Yes, vmWare server works great, you can build for EFIKA even from your quad core Vista machine :)

IceCream works now correctly most of the time on Gentoo, but it seems to me, that in some very rare occasions it fails. It might be due, that I still use openSuSE cross compiler binaries on Gentoo. I'll try to put together a proper Gentoo cross compiler environment later today.

This morning I finally managed to hack the openSUSE pakcage building script, so finally I can resume building Packman packages for openSUSE. I try to compile a lot narrower selection of packages, but with regular, daily updates, if possible. Of course, your suggestions will be welcome to extend this selection, but fixing and compiling almost a thousand packages is not a one man project, and not even worth, as some of my packages were never downloaded.

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CzP
http://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/

MacMiga said it perfectly. OS installation on Efika should be way more straightforward and absolutelly not network dependant.

Personally I managed to install debian (thankfully I have an ADSL line) but it wasn't easy for someone who has never used OpenFirmware before and has been used to menu driven x86 BIOSes for decades. As I don't like Debian I tried to install CRUX several times with no success. It seems like you have to be a proficient system administrator just to be able to install the OS and boot. I am hearing many things about alternative OSes (EfikaUbuntu, Gentoo precompiled, MorphOS 2.0) but I see nothing.

If Genesi realy wants Efika to succed as a personal computer for the normal users, they have to work a lot on these issues. Additionaly they should include a standard OS on some kind of media with the main package, the same way you get the Windows CDs and manuals with a new PC. Finaly that OS should be specialy tweaked for optimal use with the Efika, not just a standard distro.

Giving a new user an internet address from a web-site with a bunch of files that have to be downloaded, put on a usb (that might be compatible or not), just to boot an incomplete installer that needs an ADSL line doesn't look very professional IMO.

Dimitris

this is not the target for the Efika.
The "Open Client" approach is just perfect for the Efika, it cannot really be considered as a personal desktop computer or only by hobbyists (who are not really "normal" users but more like "power users" with solid computer knowledge).
what media would you use for that ? should Genesi provide an USB stick with the OS installer ?
This is not reasonable, the Efika can't be provided with a CD (no cdrom support on the Efika, only USB) nor any installation media.
I understand your difficulties but keep in mind that the Efika wasn't designed for lambda users but professionals and skilled users.

By the way, Powerdevelopper.org is just a nice place to get some help about OS installation on Efika. There is a great community, all guys ready to give you a hand.

@SoundSquare
You are telling me that Genesi/BPlan intentionally limit Efika to a small proportion of a potential huge customer base? That doesn't make sense to me and neither the name hint anything like that. In contrast to what you are saying the price indicates that the target is mass population (aka normal users) as opposed to hobbyists who generally spend lots of money on expensive parts just to satisfy their passion.

Now I don't want to attack Genesi ppl. I understand that their resources are limited and what they are trying to do is huge (introducing a new computer these days). I am just trying to hint some rough edges that need attention.
If it means they have to provide a usb stick and printed linux manuals in order to provide better customer experience then so be it. They could at least offer them as an option for those who might want that. The fact that the board doesn't support a CD ROM is irrelevant, they should have thought about it when they designed the thing.

Again I am not bashing anyone, I am suggesting ways for better user experience <=> more professional Genesi image.

Lastly I consider myself a skilled user. I have been using different computers for more than 2 decades now. From the 8bit, to the Amiga and to dozens of PCs. I work in the IT field as a software developer (java mostly) although I am not a linux guru. I could find the solutions to my issues if I spent some good days searching and experimenting with it but I don't have the time to do so.

Unfortunately, with Linux as the primary OS currently, SoundSquare is right. The Efika Open Client cannot really be target toward "normal" users. It frankly doesn't have the power/price ratio that one would expect. For 300USD you could build a much more capable PC, many orders of magnitude more powerful.

With what I've seen of MorphOS however, that could prove to make the Efika more useful as a single desktop PC. THEN the Efika can be re-targeted. At the moment though, it's really not cut out for anyone who isn't willing to take the time to learn and do all this.

This isn't to say that this isn't being worked on, however. But for the moment, there is no way that the Efika can really be considered a competitive desktop PC for the masses, with Linux. A low-power, low-noise embedded smart client for educational institution or workstation replacement use in businesses - yes, absolutely. I've seen it work wonderfully in this regard.

We're mostly in the same boat you are. We don't all have the time to research everything either. However, it's likely that something I need has been researched or looked into by someone else here already. And something others might need may be something I've looked into. That's why there's a community here.
And as SoundSquare said, the community here is widely varied and experienced. We're generally always ready to help, so you don't have to spend insane amounts of time trying to figure stuff out.

The market for this product is currently for professional and hobbyist use. However, this has not been finalized, and really can only widen from here.

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I <3 tiny computers.

Well... as a fairly new user I thought I'd throw in my thoughts on the matter since I've been affected by the OS install issues from the perspective of someone with barely any Linux experience (i.e. the "average everyday non-Linux user".)

Firstly, I think the idea of offering a usb flash drive with installer files and perhaps some basic documentation (EFIKA book? This was extremely useful to me) or example firmware commands even as an optional extra would be a great idea.

You barely need any real capacity on the usb drive for a few installer files or docs which means they could be pretty cheaply produced. This also has the added benefit of giving the user a) a flash drive that will *definitely* work, b) a quick and relatively simple path to start an installer from and c) reassurance that they *will* be able to do something with the board. That I know for sure was one of my personal worries before I bought my EFIKA.

Next... I happen to think that given the lack of any cd/floppy options, netboot OS installers like the DI_EFIKA one are actually one of the most user friendly ways given broadband penetration rates these days. Yes it's slow at times, but it works pretty easily already.

Tie this in with the idea of an optional flash drive containing the installer file as above, and it definitely boosts the confidence of someone buying the board. I know I was sold with the idea that if nothing else, I could definitely get Debian installed thanks to the great documentation of the proceedure in the EFIKA book.

Boot-from-usb OS's themselves come a close second. Crux was the next easiest for me. So far, I cannot get the Gentoo usb installer to run properly (it complains about the loopback fs and I - again as a new user - can't figure out why it is doing so).

Imagine in the future, when there are more options available, if the user could just pick one of these to get on a flashdrive with their EFIKA for a small extra fee. Again, they aren't large capacity so the cost to provide them would be low to the producer and the customer.

Or perhaps even better, a flash drive filled with netboot installers that work as simply as the DI_EFIKA one so the customer can simply pick which OS to run and install. Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu, whatever. All available to install simply by typing the appropriate installer name. Would the download wait really be so bad when at the end you have a fully compatible OS installed and ready to go?

A lot of you are far more experienced than needing this level of "support". The thing to remember is, ultimately that keeps it stuck in the minds of people as a hobbyist platform that requires a lot more than the average user will be ready to put in.

If they choose to cater only to those already knowledgable and to pay no mind to keeping it simple because you're willing to accept convoluted and complex methods, that will ultimately really hurt what is a brilliant platform.