I think that any of you knows the fact that Commodore has returnd as Commodore International, a firm based in Netherlands.

New Commodore International sells electronic gadgets, MP3 readers, virgin CD and DVD marked Commodore, etc.

They said they are not interested in DESKTOP MARKET.


Well, then Genesi could had asked Commodore if they are interested to license all the rights of the name Commodore regarding only desktop market.

Approximatively I think (with some calculations made in mind by chance -no business plan-) that the rights of the name Commodore on the desktop market, with actual situation, could worth from US$ 100.000 upto US$ 500.000.

Sure if being strongly negotiating Genesi could obtain Commodore name for an amount of circa 100.000 max 200.000 US$...

Sure the agreement should cointain these specs:

1) Genesi will obtain the name COmmodore Business Machines in order to not confusing the customers.

2) Name Commodore Business Machines should be intendented only for desktop computer market.

3) Logo will be different from original C= to not confusing customers.

4) Quality of genesi machines sholud not compromise Commodore International name

(This is not a problem. Genesi products are fine)

5) To keep price of the brand name so low in negotiating max 100.000 or 200.000 US$, then Genesi should pay some dollar fee any machine sold with CBM market.

6)Also to keep the price of the Brand so low, Genesi should promise to include such this statement into any document or warrant papers, or advertising:

"Commodore Business Machines it is a brand Licensed from Yeahronimo and Commodore International to Genesi Inc."

(into advertising on any media -internet, newspapers, tv- this statement should be printed with plain and clear and readable font size.

So Commodore International will receive visibility in return of this advice, and sure Genesi could obtain lower price for the brand.

He who owns the name Commodore (even intended as only CBM), then it is a very big advantage on the market.

A) It will attract media on the return of Commodore in desktop market

B) It will attract more and more old users of Amiga Computers

C) It will attract more venture capital

D) It will attract software firm who could then be interested in porting their software on a well known brand name

E) It will be perceived on the market as a strong point of force and visibility

F) New machines will be sold more easily.

G) Resellers agree more to sell machines with a known brand, because these are preferred by customers and are sold more easily.
Then there will be an increasing of requests of Genesi-CBM Pegasos Machines by resellers.

H) when attracting capitals, then prices of new machines could fall down, and attract again more and more people

I) Any fight to obtain the brand Amiga will be far more easy, or even the name Amiga could reveal to be not useful once it will be granted the Commodore Business Machines brand.

Sure it should be shown clearly that new Commodore-Genesi Machines are for home-high-level-computing along with entertainment (internet-dvd-music-graphics-games) AND NOT console videogames machines, except from the fact the user could take entertainment even by playing some spare good games.

Well, this one was another idea from random crazy Raffaele's mindstorms.

Ciao,

Raffaele

_________________
Que viva el Pegasos Amiga.

Hi Raffaele, you keep having your mindstorms...

We already tried this one though. Your estimations are good. They wanted $100,000 for the license up front and a percentage of sales. We declined. As for the Amiga Trademarks we have a license and we *could* use them, but also have chosen not to do so. We have been testing a few ideas at AW.net with this in mind. So far, we still are not convinced. Morphing sounds better!

How about concentrating your creative energies on something besides "desktop." The reason why 'laptop' worked as a name was because your lap went with you wherever you went. The desktop certainly became mobile, but the end user device still had to be stationary as a function of size and power. Think about a new name that sums up all that in a couple of words or syllables!

The alternative is to invent a word. Did you ever 'google' anything when CBM walked the face of the earth?

R&B

_________________
http://bbrv.blogspot.com

Well, When Commodore International said "they are not interested in desktop market" then with the word "desktop market" they just intended ALL computer models, not only the "desktop" as intended as segment of market.

So I intended it.

Regarding mobile market it is just a segment as long as desktop market.

More of the ideas regarding desktop market could be easily applied to mobile market.

Just contact me for more ideas.

Ciao,

Raffaele

_________________
Que viva el Pegasos Amiga.

I think Genesi should make a C64-compatible Pegasos 8-bit and atract users from the still active C64 scene

"Pegasos Zero" (the prequel) could be the name for it

What about that? Isn't it a cool idea?

a few million dollars for a few dozen users ?

And so on ... so on...
My opinion is that this is like "Back For The Future" or something else.
I think we need "Forward the future" or "Back in the reality".
Pegasos is a new trademark and is more and more known all over the world and thanks to www.power2people.org , it will be better.

the Pegasos needed the amiga user base for a start, but now it's time to move on. The Amiga legacy and history was fantastic (sad end though) but is has not much to do with the Pegasos.

Yes, you are right !
I am interested in new users that will use Pegasos for MorphOS as so as for Linux. And I guess that there will be more linux users than morphos, although I like more MorphOS, because it is an "Amiga based OS".
The only thing I want to say is: "Wake up!".

Thanks for comments

Neither the Commodore- nor the Amiga-name means shit today. Most
people who buy computers today have never heard of the
Amiga 500 och nor the C64. The names would only attract
computer nerds which could give us a very negative effect if
journalists start using the term:
"The new computer for all computer nostalgics!"

Why would I buy a car that was sold to all "car nostalgics" when
I have no interest in classic cars?

The Amiga-name is worth 0. Eyetech and Hyperion have proved that.
They have sold a handful of AmigaONEs before MAI Logic went
belly-up. It attracted noone outside the Amiga fanatic
community. 600 units of Pegasos I was made and I know one
person who had no experience with a past Amiga who bought it.
One.. The Pegasos II should leave all this legacy that just
holds it back and do it's own race.

I'm not interested in another Amiga/Commodore revival failure.

@ironfist

word !

Nope. It is just a matter of real skills of Marketing Dept of Genesi how to advertise it.

A good advertising campaign could even use Amiga brand name.

Also journalists of computer newspapers (even news sites) are all elder men and the true major geeks and nerds worldwide.
They know of Amiga name very well and could sure enhance or diminish the fame of a Pegasos platform branded with Amiga name.
If only you know how to treat with them, sure they could be of very valuable help by raising the interest of readers into a Pegasos or better a Pegasos/Amiga.

Think about ATARI brand. It is well known, so the people who bought it used it for their Software house with profict.
Atari it is now a multinational firm based in USA and Europe and aimed at videogames. It is one of the greatest ones in videogames market along with Sony, Nintendo, etc.
(Now due to some market crisis in videogames, Atari firm it is selling some of its controlled videogames minor firms)

Or think about just the Commodore brand we were talk of.

Why Yeahronimo bought it? Because they knew it is very apprecciated in Europe, so they purchased it and launced a line of electronic gadget products with that brand.

Facts:

1) Pegasos started natively with MorphOS OS that is an Amiga-Like OS

2) There are at least other 3000 former Amiga-users who could buy pegasi.

3) Sure Linux world it is really a true opportunity but it is widely oriented to Intel market.
A pegasos which proves it is strong in Amiga market, will interest more people even in Linux world because it will demonstrate Linux users that the hardware it is good.

4)Open Solaris sure will be the very BIG opportunity, but it is still to came.

And more, the whole market of common users worldwide should first discover Open Solaris as brand new product, and starting apprecciating it OVER existing and wide accepted Linux.

5)The MorphOS logo butterfly it is very cool and interesting for a brand of mobile products (I have some ideas about it if only BBRV could contact me privately) I could give them some hints.

6)TV productions market still knows of Amiga. It could be a very interesting niche market in which to enter by squeeze , and enlarge Pegasos presence as heir of Amiga. TV production market moves millions dollars worldwide. It could be a very confortable place for Pegasos to stay.
They just have purchased AmigaOS and AmigaONE brand from Amiga Inc which wanted to keep its users and prevent them to choose a Pegasos Amiga with MorphOS.

They succeded in split the community or else we will had had twice the users of Pegasos, and with a strong community starting from 2001, many many people had not migrated to other platforms.

They are not really interested in Amiga.

Just Hyperion is interested into Amiga because the real interest that both friedens have for Amiga platform.

Pegasos Amiga without AmigaONE could actually count a community of almost 5000 users. What a pity.

Amiga is a very known and apprecciated brand in TV production. Sure there could be space to sell almost 1000 - 2000 Pegasi if branded Amiga and well equipped for TV production.

A Videotoaster IV (PCI formafctor) card based Pegasos II (or better Pegasos III based) sure could be a very attractive machine.

Cheap and powerful!
Sure not. Proselitism is a matter of advertising, and skill to convince new people to make this jump from their elder platform to a completely new one.

Amiga userbase could help in proselitism, if only they could show their friends real powerful Amiga.

Also those who work with Amiga in professioal environments (they are diminishing very quickly) could show how much Amiga is powerful to their customers, this will start a controlled chain-reaction of underground interest into Amiga raised by talk and gossips from people to people.

Also Amiga attracts still people from outside.

When Apple leaved PPC market I counted almost 5 people on ikirsector forum Italy (http://www.ikirsector.it) from Apple Macintosh side being seriously curious about Pegasos platform because they don't want INTEL, and they were asking for more infos about our platform, MorphOS and emulation of Macintosh and MAINLY checking if the environment it is truly stable.
More people from Macintosh world were just curious and nothing else.

Even people outside Amiga experience are interested into Pegasos. But without a real support from Genesi regarding these people sure we could give only random informations even if truly correct.

There is a underground interest about Amiga worldwide.
When navigating I noticed almost two young men interested about Amiga in Italy and more worldwide.

I even read of a 40 years old man who had an A500 as gift from a friend, and he has never known of Amiga. He felt in love so now he bought a second hand pumped-up A1200 in case, and want to buy AmigaONE.

And there are plenty of people interested into Amiga, and more people I can't count because I had not noticed them, or they are just lurking our misadventures into Amiga situation.

Raise interest of Amiga is a matter of hard work, good support by exisiting userbase, and sure the Amiga could strenght its position on the market and increase userbase even from people outside.

But it should proof it is a really serious platform, with reasonable prices, expandable with standard hardware, and get good entertainment and productivity software.
Nope.

Pegasos should stay ubiquitous to enter ALL markets, then and only then, it could survive thru darwinian evolution in the niche that reveals a true life habitat for it...

But it should maintain some "escape" markets to keeping stay alive in case of troubles.
Ah! Well, well, well... If only could had heard your words of wisdom those 100 Amiga (and many TV professional) people who asked Michele Magliocca for a Pegasos here in Italy and received no response, because There were only few motherboards available due to the shortage of Pegasos manufacturing and aimed mainly in Linux market...

Just calculate same number (100 people interested) per the number of CEE countries in which Amiga was well known. And with a little effort that platform could had had twice the userbase.

So my final words are: Keep a look into Amiga as NEW market, enhance and renew the name, not the nostalgic.

Remember this simple fact: Amiga it is not a legacy or simple intellectual properties. Amiga is a brand. A brand never dies or expires.

_________________
Que viva el Pegasos Amiga.

Facts:

1. Yes it is.

2. There are no Amiga users who wants to buy Pegasos.
Try to write something about it on the main Amiga forum www.amigaworld.net and you will see. They either have AmigaOne or Amiga classics, but they don't want to buy Pegasos (maybe it is a matter of price).

3. I think that PowerPC Linux is a great solution for Linux users and developers.

4. OpenSolaris is good solution, too. You can choose what OS will you use.

5. cool !

6. I think not.

If you have such great ideas, just participate in www.power.org and a pilot project at www.power2people.org. Then you could prove something. Create a community and build it bigger and bigger. Dou you know some reseller in Italy ? Could you be a reseller ? Why not ? Move your mindstorms and ideas into reality. Do you have any projects here? : http://projects.ppczone.org/projects.php
Good luck !

Marek.

What is this duscussion about Commodore or Amiga ?

Commodore was a good name that days, but after a lot of companys tried to make money whith that name and no real products it is only something people laugh about. did anyone see what the media says about the commodore "relaunch". And all this people not knowing Commodore hear what the media has to say first. And yes here in Germany we are 80 Million people most germans love their computer or car more than their children. this means paying customers. but when mentioning commodore you get a big smile and you realy do not want to hear their thoughts about you from that moment on. And the professionels, yeah wonderfull. try to sell a professionel something that is branded commodore. none of them is going to say "Yesss, commodore is really god". they will say "commodore was realy good" (<--- past tense) and they will not know the hell of work bbrv have with genesi they will only know that there is no original commodore employee left !
So if anyone here has 100.000$ to give away he could try this, the pegasos design files are free and i "know" bbrv would assist anyone in introducing a pegasos-based product into the market. and unless this money is on the table let us not discuss the pro and contra.

P.S.: still a good idea Raffaele, because i am the type of idiot who would if i would have at least $1.000.000 (licensing+marketing).
P.P.S.: what is "uzivate" and "heslo" ?

I think that money for this idea won't be never on the table, that's why we discuss

"uzivate" is login and "heslo" is password
Do you have the right board language in your profile settings ?

Marek.

Sure is could be considered not fair to indicate amigaworld site.
It is "the other side of the sky" since Amiga splitted into two communities.

However things are evolving more than you can believe.

Check better the comments. More people are interested in Pegasos now, for the fact AmigaONE are no longer product.

A lot of people will buy Pegasos if AmigaOS could run on it...

Check, check.
I am already part of a community of Pegasos users here in Italy. We are 12 users in Naples.

At least I am managing to persuade two other people to buy one.

Will I succeded in this quest? Time will see.
Because there is Michele Magliocca (Miky '060) here who is a better reseller than me and more introduced with Genesi.

I don't want to overthrow him. He is more than a reseller. He is also a friend.
If I have any project, sure first I will protect it with copyright, and start searching for venture capitals.

Sure I will never post my commercial ideas on a site open to public.

_________________
Que viva el Pegasos Amiga.