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steelrat
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:57 am 
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Posts: 3
Location: Germany
I recently bought 2 Efika MX Smarttops.
I have several monitors here some with HDMI inputs some with DVI.

My problem is that I never get the optimal resolution of the monitors... The 'good' resolutions are always 'incompatible' but the monitors work flawless with other Ubuntu and Windows machines...

Argh, I don't know why.

Any help is highly appreciated!

Here is a sample dmesg output for a Samsung SyncMaster F2380, as you can see the native 1920x1080 resolution is 'unsupported' and forcing 1920x1080@60 results in a blank screen:
Code:
~$ dmesg|grep SIIHDMI
[ 2.171178] SIIHDMI: Device ID: 0xb0 (TPI revision 2.9)
[ 2.174212] SIIHDMI: sink detected (hotplug, )
[ 2.220846] SIIHDMI: Added 8 modes from CEA Video Data Block
[ 2.220860] SIIHDMI: HDMI sink verified
[ 2.220869] SIIHDMI: Port Config 1.0.0.0
[ 2.220982] SIIHDMI: Unsupported modelines:
[ 2.221083] SIIHDMI: i "1920x1080@50i" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1094 1104 1135 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.221280] SIIHDMI: i "1920x1080@60i" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1094 1104 1135 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.221472] SIIHDMI: p "1920x1080@50" 148.500 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1089 1094 1130 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.221662] SIIHDMI: p "1920x1080@60" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1089 1094 1130 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.221836] SIIHDMI: c "720x576@50" 27.00 720 732 796 864 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.221992] SIIHDMI: c "1280x720@50" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.222155] SIIHDMI: i "1920x1080@100i" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1094 1124 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.225666] SIIHDMI: i "1920x1080@120i" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.232680] SIIHDMI: p "1680x1050@60" 146.864 1680 1786 1966 2252 1050 1051 1054 1087 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.239805] SIIHDMI: p "1600x1200@60" 162.22 1600 1664 1856 2160 1200 1201 1204 1250 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.246980] SIIHDMI: p "1440x900@75" 136.780 1440 1534 1689 1939 900 901 904 940 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.254208] SIIHDMI: v "1440x900@60" 106.780 1440 1523 1675 1910 900 901 904 932 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.261512] SIIHDMI: v "1280x1024@60" 108.03 1280 1328 1440 1688 1024 1025 1028 1066 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.269010] SIIHDMI: v "1280x960@60" 108.03 1280 1376 1488 1800 960 961 964 1000 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.276691] SIIHDMI: v "1280x800@60" 83.647 1280 1347 1481 1683 800 801 804 828 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.284490] SIIHDMI: v "1152x864@75" 108.03 1152 1216 1344 1600 864 865 868 900 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.292443] SIIHDMI: p "1280x1024@75" 135.07 1280 1296 1440 1688 1024 1025 1028 1066 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.300596] SIIHDMI: v "1024x768@75" 78.802 1024 1040 1136 1312 768 769 772 800 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.308898] SIIHDMI: v "832x624@75" 53.433 832 875 962 1092 624 625 628 652 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.317332] SIIHDMI: v "800x600@75" 49.500 800 816 896 1056 600 601 604 625 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.325828] SIIHDMI: v "800x600@60" 40.00 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.334420] SIIHDMI: v "800x600@56" 36.01 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.343186] SIIHDMI: v "640x480@75" 31.500 640 656 720 840 480 481 484 500 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.352063] SIIHDMI: v "640x480@67" 27.106 640 661 725 810 480 481 484 499 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.361022] SIIHDMI: v "720x400@70" 26.171 720 737 808 896 400 401 404 417 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.370129] SIIHDMI: c "1280x720@60" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.379262] SIIHDMI: P "1920x1080@60" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.388402] SIIHDMI: Removed 27 modes due to incompatibilities
[ 2.392991] SIIHDMI: Supported modelines:
[ 2.397515] SIIHDMI: C "720x480@60" 27.00 720 736 798 858 480 495 501 531 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.406504] SIIHDMI: C "720x576@50" 27.00 720 732 796 864 576 586 591 630 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.415497] SIIHDMI: C "1280x720@50" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 730 735 755 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.424484] SIIHDMI: C "1280x720@60" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 730 735 755 +hsync -vsync
[ 2.433463] SIIHDMI: "720x480@59" 27.00 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.442424] SIIHDMI: "1024x768@70" 75.01 1024 1048 1184 1328 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.451377] SIIHDMI: "1024x768@60" 65.02 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.460313] SIIHDMI: "800x600@72" 50.00 800 856 976 1040 600 637 643 666 +hsync +vsync
[ 2.469205] SIIHDMI: "640x480@72" 31.500 640 664 704 832 480 489 491 520 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.478111] SIIHDMI: "640x480@60" 25.200 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
[ 2.487003] SIIHDMI: Setting Resolution: 1280x720@512


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Marq
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:01 am
Posts: 12
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Quote:
I recently bought 2 Efika MX Smarttops.
I have several monitors here some with HDMI inputs some with DVI.

My problem is that I never get the optimal resolution of the monitors... The 'good' resolutions are always 'incompatible' but the monitors work flawless with other Ubuntu and Windows machines...
There's very little you can do at this point to make it work. Just need to wait for an update that has better display support.
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Osta Olkaimet
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:28 pm
Posts: 9
See this thread for explanations why there's nothing wrong with Efika's HDMI management, and why it is actually very elegant, and basically your Samsung monitor is broken, just like every device that doesn't understand Efika's HDMI handling.
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/vi ... php?t=1764
:roll:
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steelrat
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:34 am
Posts: 3
Location: Germany
I see... So my HP Monitors are broken as well... They display 1024x768 instead of 1680x1050... I'm sitting here surrounded by abt. 15 broken Monitors and 2 elegant working Efika MX Smarttops *rolling with my eyes*
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Neko
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:39 am
Posts: 1589
Location: Austin, TX
Quote:
I see... So my HP Monitors are broken as well... They display 1024x768 instead of 1680x1050...
This is normal. The MX51 cannot support a pixel clock higher than 133MHz: check your dmesg for "incompatible modes" and you will notice that most of them are interlaced or have a pixel clock of 148MHz or 160MHz.

The reason it picks 1024x768 is because this is the only mode the monitor tells us it can display that doesn't have a ridiculously high pixel clock.

Luckily though, a real HDMI monitor with 720p support will work fine. If it supports "low field rate" 1080p modes (24 or 25Hz) then these work fine. This is because the CEA standard "low" clock rate is 74.25MHz which is well within range.

You will be lucky if it supports 1680x1050: we have one monitor here that manages that (a nice AOC with a 102MHz 1680x1050 mode). 1440x900 is more likely. Some monitors however provide several modes in the EDID which have too low a vertical trace time (the time between end of picture and start of picture for the monitor) - the HDMI specification specifically states this cannot be less than 2. When your monitor says it's vsync_len is 1, it cannot be displayed by an HDMI compatible display controller..

There is one potential bug which is in the CEA mode culling and IT mode selection. Some monitors report CEA modes which may not work when not connected via HDMI. In the case of a DVI sink we should cull CEA modes that are duplicated as IT modes, preserving the IT modes. On an HDMI sink we should cull IT modes duplicated as CEA modes, preserving the CEA modes. However while this seems like a great idea, some monitors reverse the logic and we can't detect them.
Quote:
I'm sitting here surrounded by abt. 15 broken Monitors and 2 elegant working Efika MX Smarttops *rolling with my eyes*

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Marq
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:01 am
Posts: 12
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Quote:
Quote:
I see... So my HP Monitors are broken as well... They display 1024x768 instead of 1680x1050...
This is normal. The MX51 cannot support a pixel clock higher than 133MHz: check your dmesg for "incompatible modes" and you will notice that most of them are interlaced or have a pixel clock of 148MHz or 160MHz.
I got the same 1024x768 on my HP display capable of 1920x1080 and when the autodetection decides on something there's nothing you can do, really. Not even tell it to use one of the supported modes that would put the pixels into better use. Is there going to be randr support at some point?

Any reason why the interlaced modes aren't ok?
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Osta Olkaimet
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:31 pm 
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My Sony TV does not show anything, because Efika decides to try and set some mode the TV cannot display. I guess that is normal as well.

But tell me, what has everybody else done differently that they don't have such problems? The Efika MX is the first device that doesn't work with the Sony.

And why is it a good thing to obey a spec instead of making something that works in real life? You are not in a position where you can be incompatible with real-world devices, just because you think they don't follow the spec closely enough. Currently you're a small company making a non-working product. It doesn't make any sense! It doesn't matter what the HDMI spec says, all that matters is if I get a picture to show on my TV. That shouldn't be too complicated an idea to understand.
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steelrat
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:32 am 
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Location: Germany
First, it's good (in a sad way) to know that I'm not alone with this problem...

But why does the MX51 only support 133MHz Pixelclock?
I was not aware that such thing is possible with HDMI 1.0 at 165MHz. So the HDMI standard means 'up-to' and not 'guaranteed'?

I'm not shure I had bought the Smarttops knowing about such a limitation!
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PurpleAlien
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:28 am
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Location: Finland
Hi.

The problem is that due to the complexity of the HDMI standard, we cannot (at this time) foresee every possible issue and provide a solution. Fixing one thing to solve your issue might (and will) break several other people's display.

If we deviate from the spec now, we will break several set-ups that work perfectly today. Most of the issues we face currently are with large TV's.

In the future we will provide a more elegant solution, but that will take time. In the mean time we are working hard on other pressing issues such as video playback. We have 720p and even 1080p decoding and playback working. We have several other improvements that will enhance the user experience. We are working on a new kernel. We want to release these as soon as possible for everyone and this is taking up resources.

As a side note: in order to communicate the things we do internally better to the PowerDeveloper community, we will release a set of demo images showing off all the cool stuff we have. These will not be officially supported, but should give people some ideas on where we're headed.


Johan.

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Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet
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malcolm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:11 am 
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Posts: 13
> We have 720p and even 1080p decoding and playback working.

That's great but you seem to be putting bells and whistles on a car with no wheels, I think making sure everyone can see the Desktop on their Tv/Monitor comes before worrying about video playback.
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PurpleAlien
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:21 am 
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Genesi

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Location: Finland
Hi.

Please refer to this post for the technical reasons behind this issue:

http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/vi ... 4744#14722

Basically, if you have a real HDMI 720p capable monitor, it will work.
Quote:
I think making sure everyone can see the Desktop on their Tv/Monitor comes before worrying about video playback
Those with working systems and netbooks might disagree. We cannot fix the issues you're having without breaking a bunch of systems that work today.


Johan.

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Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet
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malcolm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:36 am 
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Hi Johan,

Is this issue likely to be resolved when an mx53 version of the Smarttop capable of dealing with a faster pixel clock appears?

If so any idea when that will be?
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PurpleAlien
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:47 am 
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Hi Malcolm,

The i.mx53 indeed will solve this issue due to the larger pixel clock. Also, keep in mind that we're not giving up on trying to fix the current issue. We have some ideas, but it will take time to implement (and especially test) these solutions.

The first i.MX53 product will be a netbook. A nettop should follow afterwards.


Johan.

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Johan Dams, Genesi USA Inc.
Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet
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Marq
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:59 am 
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
Quote:
The problem is that due to the complexity of the HDMI standard, we cannot (at this time) foresee every possible issue and provide a solution. Fixing one thing to solve your issue might (and will) break several other people's display.
How about letting power users specify the timings and resolutions by hand if they really want to? Autodetect the modes otherwise. That wouldn't break the existing setups, but would let the less fortunate of us to get at least some output at our own risk.
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PurpleAlien
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:12 am 
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Hi.
Quote:
How about letting power users specify the timings and resolutions by hand if they really want to? Autodetect the modes otherwise. That wouldn't break the existing setups, but would let the less fortunate of us to get at least some output at our own risk.
That is one of the options we are looking at, however typing in the clock frequencies by hand is just not feasible (8 columns of numbers, etc.)
The problem is also that if we are officially supporting this, and it breaks people's set-ups or blows up a TV, we would be liable as a company. Some non-technical user might read about it, decides to play with it, and break his system... If it is an officially supported release, we end up in trouble.

What we are looking at is to give the option to select a screen mode based on the EDID return from the screen by means of a token for instance.


Johan.

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Director, Software Engineering

Yep, I have a blog... PurpleAlienPlanet
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